i was there with ronald reagan. he gave specifics in terms of tax expenditures. 97% of the small businesses make less than $250,000. hedge funds that make $600 million a year. let's look at how sincere they are. governor romney on "60 minutes," 10 days ago, was asked, you pay 14% on $20 million. someone making $50,000 pays more than that. do think that is fair? he said, yes, that is fair. you think these guys are going to cut those loopholes? the biggest loophole they take advantage of is that carried interest loophole and capital gains loophole. there is not enough -- the reason why the american enterprise institute study, the reason they all say it is going to go up for the middle class, the only way you can find $5 trillion in loopholes is cut the mortgage deduction for middle-class people. cut the health care deduction for middle-class people. that is why -- >> he is wrong about that. >> not mathematically possible. >> it has been done before. >> it has never been done before. >> it has been done a couple of tim